Season Four, Episode 06

Susan Pavlak and Gil Gustafson, both St. Paul natives. Photo by Casey Steffens.
"I was incapable of consent at 16 in any meaningful way, let alone. Saying no to a person in a position of power who was grooming me for abuse and who was isolating me from my family and friends." - Susan Pavlak. on her abuser. Photo by Casey Steffens.
Gil was ordained a priest in 1977 at the age of 26. Images courtesy of Gil Gustafson.
In 1983, Gil plead guilty to sexually abusing a teenage boy, and has since admitted to the abuse of three other male minors. Photo by Casey Steffens.
"It's like I was given full entree to share people's lives in the most important moments, and I was in love with it, but it was exhausting." - Gil Gustafson on leading his parish. Photo by Casey Steffens.
"We are attempting to tell the truth because we are transformed individuals or in the process of transformation, and would like transformation for our beloved church." - Susan Pavlak. Photo by Casey Steffens.
In 2011, Gil and Susan met at a restorative justice program with the Department of Corrections for adjudicated sex offenders who were in a diversion program. Photo by Casey Steffens.
"Recovery allows you to have the contempt that you experienced not turn into something that you use against other people, because you can't cut the people of God in two." - Susan Pavlak. Photo by Casey Steffens.
Susan is currently president of the Gilead Project, which seeks promote healing and prevention of sexual abuse and abuses of power. Photo by Casey Steffens.
"We haven't given up on the church. They may have given up on us, but we have not given up on them." - Gil Gustafson. Photos by Casey Steffens
"The aim of our work together, for me, is restoration and wholeness. And in our persons, we are archetypes of what it looks like not only to be damaged and do great damage, but to restore and repair that damage." - Susan Pavlak. Photo by Casey Steffens.

Season Four, Episode 06

Hen’s Teeth

Hen’s Teeth

A story of friendship and the dark side of the church.

Susan Pavlak is at work hospicing the Catholic Church, and after spending her youth in the crosshairs of a sexual predator, found solace in forgiveness and truth. Pavlak describes how she reconciles her history of abuse with her continued faith in the Catholic Church and the goodness it provides – and how that faith would lead her to Gil Gustafson. A former priest, Gustafson has become Susan’s unlikely partner in a quest to shine light on the church’s darkest secrets. In this episode, both describe their troubling experiences on opposite sides of abuse, how they came together as friends to heal, and their push for accountability.

Produced by Mike Martinez, Tyler Wray, and Grace Heerman. Music by Mike Etten. Sound design by George Drake, Jr.

Originally produced by Stephanie Lepp for her podcast Reckonings, this episode has been re-edited and expanded to include all new audio and sound design.

Photos by Casey Steffens.

*This story contains strong descriptions of sexual abuse. Listener discretion is advised.

Transcript
Transcript
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